FORUM
1.1 From centralized to decentralized power structures
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05Reflecting on what Vera said about maturing from a father-model into a sibling-model and the struggle for many of us to not only grow into and own our power but also the responsibility that comes with that, I invite you to journal on the following questions:
- Where in your surroundings do you see systems and people struggling with that maturation process?
- Have you maybe had situations yourself where you suddenly had to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable for what happened and you found it difficult?
- What do you think makes it difficult for us to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the consequences of our actions?
- What would allow us to take that power and therewith the responsibility more easily? – In our organizations? In our families? In society?
Reflecting on what Vera said about maturing from a father-model into a sibling-model and the struggle for many of us to not only grow into and own our power but also the responsibility that comes with that, I invite you to journal on the following questions:
- Where in your surroundings do you see systems and people struggling with that maturation process?
- Have you maybe had situations yourself where you suddenly had to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable for what happened and you found it difficult?
- What do you think makes it difficult for us to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the consequences of our actions?
- What would allow us to take that power and therewith the responsibility more easily? – In our organizations? In our families? In society?
Quote from Brent on 24 October 2021, 04:19On seeing system and struggle to mature:
In my purview, it appears prevalent the patriarchal and paternalistic orientation in the household and corporate environments. The paternalistic notion likely leads to infantilization. However, people who sincerely and courageously desire to breakthrough the stereotype tend to be viewed with hostility, and assumed to be disrespectful and disloyal. This confusion of genuine dissent and flipping loyalty can be viciously traumatic and stymies potential progress towards other kinder futures. Moreover, with this recurring prime-narrative, our persisting system has bred learned helplessness among citizens leading to inadequate civic participation, let alone equipped to productively engage, and for those that do are often silenced for disobedience. This reciprocally enables the rise of populist government, often with messianic complex, promising the long-sought changes but has deeply-questionable angle of ethics.
On taking responsibility:
I think the maturation process can occur more explicitly when we acknowledge that voice of the marginalized, dispossessed has to be taken into account into how people experience the machinations of the system in its intended and unintended design. Instead of saying reality is what it is and surrender to it with a sort of civic apathy, to remind ourselves we are co-authors of our reality now and what our reality could be.
For me, taking responsibility can be frightening inasmuch as the holding the pen to author own and shared story. Yes, there were many situations that invited to rise up to the challenge and in my admittance, not all are taken with confidence without hesitation but often with trepidation. This could be speaking my personal truth to power, risking the benefit of convenient safety and security at the expense of responsible freedom. Asking for help can be difficult too especially when there's an image of being independent is unconsciously being protected.
On holding each other accountable and consequences unfold:
I find that it's difficult for us to hold each other accountable when we mean accountability as punitive and weaponized to oppress for the sake of oppression. In another light where such dis-empowering meaning is possibly negated, it could still be frightening as one is negotiated with the power to exercise but whether one can comprehend and manage are other matters to critically consider. Arguably, no one likes to get hurt as much as the hurt one receives from touching a hot stove, but we cannot come from a place of completely no hurt. So what is compassion in accountability, a risk to step-up that we are willing to make -- both for the person held accountable and the other person helping to hold the accountability?
On making taking responsibility with ease:
I'd wager the world would be a lighter and kinder place when we go beyond the theatrics of blame and fault-finding, and hoarding power. That in the apparent polarity we share the responsibility to find the middle-way. I was reminded that facilitation draws from the word, facile (to make easy), but easy does not mean an absence of stretch. So responsibility, for me, is deliberately standing on the liminal edge between our zone of comfort and the zone of uncertainty and discomfort. To possibly make that happen is to have a communal space where genuine support is the intent -- all can apply in organizations, families, and society.
On seeing system and struggle to mature:
In my purview, it appears prevalent the patriarchal and paternalistic orientation in the household and corporate environments. The paternalistic notion likely leads to infantilization. However, people who sincerely and courageously desire to breakthrough the stereotype tend to be viewed with hostility, and assumed to be disrespectful and disloyal. This confusion of genuine dissent and flipping loyalty can be viciously traumatic and stymies potential progress towards other kinder futures. Moreover, with this recurring prime-narrative, our persisting system has bred learned helplessness among citizens leading to inadequate civic participation, let alone equipped to productively engage, and for those that do are often silenced for disobedience. This reciprocally enables the rise of populist government, often with messianic complex, promising the long-sought changes but has deeply-questionable angle of ethics.
On taking responsibility:
I think the maturation process can occur more explicitly when we acknowledge that voice of the marginalized, dispossessed has to be taken into account into how people experience the machinations of the system in its intended and unintended design. Instead of saying reality is what it is and surrender to it with a sort of civic apathy, to remind ourselves we are co-authors of our reality now and what our reality could be.
For me, taking responsibility can be frightening inasmuch as the holding the pen to author own and shared story. Yes, there were many situations that invited to rise up to the challenge and in my admittance, not all are taken with confidence without hesitation but often with trepidation. This could be speaking my personal truth to power, risking the benefit of convenient safety and security at the expense of responsible freedom. Asking for help can be difficult too especially when there's an image of being independent is unconsciously being protected.
On holding each other accountable and consequences unfold:
I find that it's difficult for us to hold each other accountable when we mean accountability as punitive and weaponized to oppress for the sake of oppression. In another light where such dis-empowering meaning is possibly negated, it could still be frightening as one is negotiated with the power to exercise but whether one can comprehend and manage are other matters to critically consider. Arguably, no one likes to get hurt as much as the hurt one receives from touching a hot stove, but we cannot come from a place of completely no hurt. So what is compassion in accountability, a risk to step-up that we are willing to make -- both for the person held accountable and the other person helping to hold the accountability?
On making taking responsibility with ease:
I'd wager the world would be a lighter and kinder place when we go beyond the theatrics of blame and fault-finding, and hoarding power. That in the apparent polarity we share the responsibility to find the middle-way. I was reminded that facilitation draws from the word, facile (to make easy), but easy does not mean an absence of stretch. So responsibility, for me, is deliberately standing on the liminal edge between our zone of comfort and the zone of uncertainty and discomfort. To possibly make that happen is to have a communal space where genuine support is the intent -- all can apply in organizations, families, and society.
Quote from Joep C on 25 October 2021, 14:12With regards to the questions the following:
- I think the struggle with this maturation process is all around us. We are in a paradigm shifting society - regardless the perspective you take (society perspective / spiritual perspective - where the old structures and metaphors are still Omni-present - and only gradually, however at a fairly high pace we are shifting from the traditional hierarchical, knowledge based power systems to new systems where we understand that sharing knowledge and experience maybe one of the keys to ‘survival’.
- Several situations where that happened, however I can not recall that I found it very difficult. Sometimes challenging and a bit scary - I remember that I was skipper of a sailboat and we had to dock in the harbour with strong winds - but never really difficult as I guess I was never asked to to responsibility beyond what I believed I was capable of doing.
- I think that what makes it difficult to hold ourselves and each other accountable is the fact that there is still a system in place that either rewards or punishes us for the outcomes - often in light of objectives set by higher levels in the organisation (revenue / cost goals and objectives) and not from a perspective where we indeed may be accountable for a project, but in case whatever we achieve is reflected upon from a perspective of what it teaches us, both as a group and as an individual. So as long as we keep connecting accountability with only rewarding, shaming and blaming and not with learning it will remain something that is really challenging to embrace!
- I would simply say: see above. I guess we would have to start living the something that becomes more and more popular these days, i.e. ‘Let’s learn from our mistakes by reflecting on what happened!’
With regards to the questions the following:
- I think the struggle with this maturation process is all around us. We are in a paradigm shifting society - regardless the perspective you take (society perspective / spiritual perspective - where the old structures and metaphors are still Omni-present - and only gradually, however at a fairly high pace we are shifting from the traditional hierarchical, knowledge based power systems to new systems where we understand that sharing knowledge and experience maybe one of the keys to ‘survival’.
- Several situations where that happened, however I can not recall that I found it very difficult. Sometimes challenging and a bit scary - I remember that I was skipper of a sailboat and we had to dock in the harbour with strong winds - but never really difficult as I guess I was never asked to to responsibility beyond what I believed I was capable of doing.
- I think that what makes it difficult to hold ourselves and each other accountable is the fact that there is still a system in place that either rewards or punishes us for the outcomes - often in light of objectives set by higher levels in the organisation (revenue / cost goals and objectives) and not from a perspective where we indeed may be accountable for a project, but in case whatever we achieve is reflected upon from a perspective of what it teaches us, both as a group and as an individual. So as long as we keep connecting accountability with only rewarding, shaming and blaming and not with learning it will remain something that is really challenging to embrace!
- I would simply say: see above. I guess we would have to start living the something that becomes more and more popular these days, i.e. ‘Let’s learn from our mistakes by reflecting on what happened!’
Quote from Phil-Gordan Zameit on 27 October 2021, 10:30Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- Where in your surroundings do you see systems and people struggling with that maturation process?
In families, in companies, in education (schools and universities), in associations. Basically everywhere. Even in couple relationships, where the contact does not prepare an environment in which development and growth is possible, independent of learned structures that are not conducive. Be it in oneself or in one's partner.
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- Have you maybe had situations yourself where you suddenly had to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable for what happened and you found it difficult?
Of course! From my point of view, no one is free of that. While watching the video, a few situations popped into my head. These were, for example, situations with my brother in which I reacted in an encroaching and too fast way without giving him space for the process of questioning himself, recognising his own needs and then developing his own attitude to the situation. This all takes time and different people in the same situations that they experience together are different in how quickly they can get involved and at the same time stay with themselves. In retrospect, this is easier to recognise than it is in the respective situation.
There were similar situations in couple relationships.I often deal with younger people and wonder if I unconsciously reproduce situations according to the father model.
I also often find it difficult to freely engage in situations where there are men over 50 in the round who more or less subtly radiate their power and supposed supremacy. I then become a little quieter, because my strength is too precious to fight against it.
That was a very critical view of me. On the other hand, I can think of numerous situations in which I am prepared to take responsibility without knowing exactly what will happen to me. I have a very great confidence in myself to be able to cope with things. Looking back, I am also very satisfied with my behaviour in most situations. Especially when a good group experience is related to it.
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- What do you think makes it difficult for us to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the consequences of our actions?
Insecurity in trusting one's own abilities and a lack of positive experiences of having mastered things on one's own are, in my view, key factors in people's unwillingness to take responsibility. It probably feels too good to pass responsibility upwards and then be consoled in the victim role from the social environment. This is a process that I have experienced far too often with my father. Completely destructive, he surrenders without taking responsibility for himself alone. How is he supposed to be able to take responsibility for others from this setting?
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- What would allow us to take that power and therewith the responsibility more easily? – In our organizations? In our families? In society?
Less fear of one's own failure. If the environment allows mistakes, then the risk of considering one's own action, for which one bears responsibility, as a failure is not so big.
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- Where in your surroundings do you see systems and people struggling with that maturation process?
In families, in companies, in education (schools and universities), in associations. Basically everywhere. Even in couple relationships, where the contact does not prepare an environment in which development and growth is possible, independent of learned structures that are not conducive. Be it in oneself or in one's partner.
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- Have you maybe had situations yourself where you suddenly had to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable for what happened and you found it difficult?
Of course! From my point of view, no one is free of that. While watching the video, a few situations popped into my head. These were, for example, situations with my brother in which I reacted in an encroaching and too fast way without giving him space for the process of questioning himself, recognising his own needs and then developing his own attitude to the situation. This all takes time and different people in the same situations that they experience together are different in how quickly they can get involved and at the same time stay with themselves. In retrospect, this is easier to recognise than it is in the respective situation.
There were similar situations in couple relationships.
I often deal with younger people and wonder if I unconsciously reproduce situations according to the father model.
I also often find it difficult to freely engage in situations where there are men over 50 in the round who more or less subtly radiate their power and supposed supremacy. I then become a little quieter, because my strength is too precious to fight against it.
That was a very critical view of me. On the other hand, I can think of numerous situations in which I am prepared to take responsibility without knowing exactly what will happen to me. I have a very great confidence in myself to be able to cope with things. Looking back, I am also very satisfied with my behaviour in most situations. Especially when a good group experience is related to it.
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- What do you think makes it difficult for us to hold ourselves and each other accountable for the consequences of our actions?
Insecurity in trusting one's own abilities and a lack of positive experiences of having mastered things on one's own are, in my view, key factors in people's unwillingness to take responsibility. It probably feels too good to pass responsibility upwards and then be consoled in the victim role from the social environment. This is a process that I have experienced far too often with my father. Completely destructive, he surrenders without taking responsibility for himself alone. How is he supposed to be able to take responsibility for others from this setting?
Quote from Onno Beukenhorst on 2 October 2021, 08:05
- What would allow us to take that power and therewith the responsibility more easily? – In our organizations? In our families? In society?
Less fear of one's own failure. If the environment allows mistakes, then the risk of considering one's own action, for which one bears responsibility, as a failure is not so big.